Jail opponents organize against Kingsgate/Totem Lake location
The proposed 640 bed jail site in Kirkland’s Potential Annexation Area (PAA) is drawing fire from neighboring residents and businesses. Even the City of Woodinville has weighed in. The unincorporated King County site is on a short list of six possible locations for a large municipal jail facility to serve as the primary misdemeanant jail for the North East Cities of King County.
The proposed jail site is the current location of Waste Management at 13225 N.E. 126th Place [site map] and is adjacent to the BNSF trail / rail corridor.
Bellevue, Kirkland, Redmond, Seattle and Shoreline have agreed to a joint environmental review process of the sites the North/East Cities are considering as a possible location for a new municipal jail. The public meetings regarding Environmental Impact Statement scoping have taken place and public comments will be accepted through January 31, 2009.
We have received several letters stating concerns from neighboring residents and businesses with regard to the EIS process:
City of Woodinville Letter – Concerns regarding environment, traffic, neighborhood impacts
Letter explaining the Environmental Land Use process
Letter from Katherine McLean – EIS/SEPA Scoping Process
Additionally, a jail opposition website has emerged called www.nototemlakejail.org. The website lists eight reasons to stop the jail:
- The jail will be too big
- Many prisoners will be released directly from the jail near where we live
- Crime may increase in our area
- There are too many family-oriented functions in the area
- Annexation will be more difficult
- Total costs by the county may be far more than expected
- Helpful services for prisoners lacking
- Land-use issues may not be met
The name of the website, notototemlakejail.org, may be in itself the cause of some confusion. The name implies that the proposed jail site is in Totem Lake, which is incorrect. The proposed site is in Kingsgate.
According to maps provided by the City of Kirkland and King County, the proposed jail site is located in unincorporated King County, specifically in the south west corner of the Kingsgate neighborhood. Some in the area commonly refer to it as Totem Lake.
Kirkland Views and other local media have correctly referred to this jail site as either being located in Kingsgate or in Kirkland’s Potential Annexation Area of unincorporated King County. Totem Lake, is one of the thirteen neighborhoods that make up the City of Kirkland.
This attempt to rebrand the potential jail site as being in the “Totem Lake Jail” site may or may not add confusion to an already complex issue. Since the site is outside the city limits, it is governed by King County, not the City of Kirkland. Some have speculated that since the proposed jail site is outside the boundaries of any city, it may be less likely for organized opposition to produce sufficient political pressure to stop the jail. Neighboring residents and businesses are attempting to prove otherwise.
Posted by Admin on Thursday, January 29, 2009 at 11:32 am
Filed under Features · Tagged with BNSF Trail/Rail, Jail, King County, Kingsgate, Totem Lake
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I’m wondering if the jail will hurt chances for being annexed. Calling it a Totem Lake jail or a Kirkland jail or Kingsgate jail is an issue for some I guess. Whatever it is named is not the point. It is bad for our community. If I owned Totem Lake mall I think I would change the name to something else because on the freeway you’ll see signs saying NEXT EXIT TOTEM LAKE JAIL AND MALL or KIRKLAND JAIL AND MALL or KINGSGATE JAIL AND MALL. Bad plan. Having a shopping mall at the same exit as the largest jail around will prevent shoppers and therefore prevent the mall from ever being built.
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I’m not sure if worrying about Totem Lake Jail vs Kingsgate Jail really matters. First of all I think both names are correct. Why?
This area is really a gray area between Kingsgate and Totem Lake. It is in the Kingsgate section of the PAA but is doesn’t fall into any of the neighborhood associations that are affiliated with Kingsgate.
It is more geographically defined with the Totem Lake area since it lies in the same valley as the rest of Totem Lake and the area is commercial and light industrial just like Totem Lake.
While Totem Lake is a defined neighborhood within the City of Kirkland, many of the members of that association live in the unincorporated area of Kingsgate but participate in the Totem Lake Neighborhood Association.
Another example is Rose Hill. Rose Hill includes portions of Kirkland, Redmond, and Unincorporated King County. To them they all live on Rose Hill.
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Cdog,
You make some great points. I think the important issue is to focus on the question of IF the jail will be sited here rather than WHAT it will be named once it has.
Thank you for your comments.
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How can I oppose this and who is my representative on this jail decision making body. I am not far from this location and I drive past it daily. Jails bring bad people. When was the last time you went to a jail? If you keep your nose clean the answer is probably never. Unless you have done something very bad or know people who do bad things you never go anywhere near jails.
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Joseph, you can all the information needed on the web site http://www.nototoemlakejail.org
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In trying to name the website, we decided to ask the people who actually have their businesses in the area immediately adjacent to the proposed jail site. all of them have their business cards showing an address as Kirkland. When I asked them where they were located, in Kingsgate or Totem lake EVERY ONE replied Totem Lake. The business park at 13613 NE126th place is called TOTEM RIDGE BUSINESS CENTER. Across 132ndAve NE which is actually Kirkland and a mere 500 yards from the proposed jail site, the business park is called Totem Lake Business Park. On the other side of the NE124th St corridor is actually Redmond but the businesses there will tell you they are in Kirkland, Totem Lake area.
The general concensus seems to be that the residential area up the hill on 132nd St NE is referred to as Kingsgate. (Although when we bought our house there, we were told we were in Kirkland) The area along the NE 124th St corridor is commonly referred to as not only Kirkland, but also Totem Lake. Go figure.. I guess in reality, it really doesn’t really matter what they call it. It is just wrong to expect this small business area adjacent to a small residential area to house a huge 640 bed jail with all its attendant problems. That is certainly what people are telling us.
So, we hope that people, in addition to their regular visits to Kirklandviews.com, will visit this community website as “their own” place to try to understand the process we are dealing with and to communicate with their neighbors with their comments. As Rob Butcher so succinctly put it in past postings.on the subject,..If you are not at the table, you are on the menu.
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Thanks for bringing more attention to this, Rob. Personally, I’ve always thought that if you’re on top of the hill you’re in Kingsgate, and if you’re not on top of the hill, you’re not in Kingsgate. NE 126th Place (where the proposed jail site is located) is off the hill and in Totem Lake; NE 128th Place and NE 129th St, at the top of the hill, is in Kingsgate. Over toward the hospital, we’ve always considered NE 128th St to be the dividing line — Evergreen Hospital and Madison House are on top of the hill and in Kingsgate, but Trader Joe’s is in Totem Lake. The western boundary of Kingsgate is I-405, and the eastern boundary is roughly 136th Ave NE (although the short streets to the east of 136th NE are in Kingsgate, too, because they’re on top of the hill). On the north end, it’s a bit trickier, because a lot of development has been done right on the hillside (what happened to that steep-slope development rule, anyway?), but most wouldn’t consider Woodinville Drive to be in Kingsgate, while the developments on the hill south of it are. The fact that the jail site is in the industrial area rather than the residential area puts it squarely in Totem Lake rather than Kingsgate, no matter where the city limit lines are. Kingsgate isn’t really defined by political boundaries, but by geographic features.
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It is confusing. The King County website map shows this part of Unincorporated King County as a PAA identified as Kingsgate. However when asked, people will differentiate between Kingsgate and Totem Lake. Over all, it seems that everyone in this part of the PAA pretty much thinks that they live in Kirkland and generally they use Kirkland 98034 as their address. For some time most have expected to be annexed to Kirkland. However, there is much more at stake than whether or not one’s community gets identified with the jail. The more important point is where released inmates will go after their short stay in the jail,(average 9 days). We hope that most would want to head home which for many, will be back to Seattle. However if they are released at the end of their sentence, that would be mid-night and they will be hard pressed to find an easy way home. Heading north, the proposed jail would be about 50 feet from the planned multifamily development on the hillside, 300 yards to Kingsgate residential homes going up the NE132nd St hill; about 500 yards to the 132nd Square Park; and a short walk further up 132nd to the schools and beyond to the Kingsgate Mall if they were attracted to the bars and casino there. If there were a reliable bus service, released inmates could wait for a bus at the bottom of the hill right across the street from Totem Lake Business Park in Kirkland. Or heading west, they could walk down NE 124th St along the Totem Lake corridor in Kirkland and up through the Totem Lake Mall to the bus hub near Evergreen Hospital.
Clearly, no one wants their community identified with a big jail but in fact, this jail would be pretty much in the middle of the surrounding communities of Kirkland, Kingsgate,and Totem Lake to the north and west and with Redmond on the south side and Woodinville to the east. It would undoubtedly self identify with use. And that is anyone’s guess.
Don’t you think?
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Wouldn’t annexation by Kirkland make it easier to decide if a jail goes into this location as it lies within the PAA?
Or is this another PAA altogether?
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Ben,
The location of the proposed jail is in Kirkland’s PAA. One would think that annexation of the area would be hindered by having a jail there but that may not be how City Hall is looking at it. They may see the jail as a revenue source. They may see the jail as a positive development. They may see the jail as a chance to improve annexation finances. Studies have shown that annexation would require building a new public safety building and perhaps the jail could be that building. I, for one, do not know the answers to these questions.
An interesting question to PAA residents might be this scenario: If a 640 bed jail would make annexation more feasible for Kirkland, how would that affect your annexation preference? Bothell is financially sound and it is considering annexation of the PAA. Since Kirkland is struggling financially, if the only way Kirkland could afford annexation was with the 640 bed jail, would annexation by Kirkland be preferable to annexation by Bothell?
Thank you for your comments.
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I think you make an interesting scenario Rob. Could it be that Kirkland City Council is in favor of placing a 640 bed jail that mostly serves Seattle, in Totem lake? It could quite quickly become known as the “Kirkland Jail” since everyone in that area of Totem Lake believes they are in Kirkland. Business owners in Totem Ridge Business Park have 13613 126th Place, Kirkland, WA, 98034 printed on their business cards.
In addition, the point has to be made that, and let me be straight forward…THERE IS NOTHING ENTREPRENEURIAL ABOUT A JAIL. Jails do not pay taxes. People who would work in this jail for the most part.would live somewhere else given the effect of seniority in the system. No tax advantage to Kirkland there. This jail would drive out a healthy and “green” business, Waste Management” who not only serves the area well, is a good neighbor but they also pay taxes. Kirkland City Council needs to think of how many healthy tax paying businesses would pick up and move at the first opportunity? I talked to quite a few of them and they certainly have serious problems about doing business next door to a huge jail both from the point of view of security and client access. Remember, it is not who they keep in jail . The problem is who, how many and how they let them out in our neighborhoods. Also there is the perception about the area that is bound to develop, as a less than salubrious area to say the least. Jails do not attract businesses, they repel them. They do not provide a tax base they destroy one. A huge 255,000 square ft jail will certainly overshadow anything else in the neighborhood…and will stick out like a huge sore thumb. Kirkland City Council certainly know the type of people who will end up being brought to Kingsgate-Totem Lake-Kirkland and that they almost all will have lengthy felony records as well as the relatively innocuous DUI they might be picked up on. The City Council have certainly made that public on the video that you found and is still on on Kirkland views. Maybe we should remind them. Maybe folks should have another look. That is a sobering bit of information.
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No matter what it’s called, this jail would cast a shadow on the future of the Totem Lake Mall, just because it’s so close. Perception is reality. Why would the mall developer want to invest the funds for development with a jail close by, and what new developer would want to buy it for a retail or mixed use.
I don’t understand why Council Member Sternoff hasn’t been more vocal about this at the City Council meetings.
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I’ll answer your question Phil. Bob Sternoff is very pro jail. Read his bio. He is chair of a public safety committee and jail oversight assembly. He chairs a public safety committee. The chair of a public safety committee is as pro jail as you can get. As you say, have you heard him speak out against it?
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I don’t see what all the fuss is about with the jail. Lower property values means lower property taxes!
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You make an interesting point Mr. Lester. The NEC website states emphatically that a jail will not lower property values. They even have a study to back up their position. Trouble is, the study was done by the Dept. of Justice. Anyone sensing a conflict here? Actually, a suburb of San Diego, the City of Santee, held a news conference in which they discussed the findings of a $100,000 economic study conducted by London Group Realty Advisors Inc.
The study, conducted with Jones, Roach & Caringella Inc. and the Criminal Justice Consultancy, said…” building a larger facility would adversely affect the value of nearby residential and commercial properties and damage the city’s economic growth”.
The large jail could have a negative impact exceeding $165 million, according to the report.
“If they build a jail of the magnitude they are proposing, it will decrease surrounding real estate values by up to $75 million,” Voepel said. “The existing 45 acres of property in Santee is much too valuable as commercially useable property to build a new jail. This is essentially value that deprives taxpayers of the county of San Diego the best use of their tax dollars,” stated the report.
So, puting the overall negative impact and social costs aside (for the moment), real estate values DO go down. While this may not impact you personally and you see a positive note in reduced home values, most people have a great deal invested in their homes and most will want to sell at some point. If your city is identified with a jail, that will not be so easy, and the homes that have already lost value in the current housing crisis will lose even more, possibly putting many “under water” owing more than their properties are worth. Foreclosures could follow. Saving a few bucks on property taxes can’t possibly offset the negative impact that this huge jail would have on Kirkland and the communities surrounding Totem Lake.
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