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	<title>Comments on: Public hearing on Kirkland Parkplace has overflow attendance &#8212; many left unable to speak</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.kirklandviews.com/2008/06/14/public-hearing-on-kirkland-parkplace-has-overflow-attendance-many-left-unable-to-speak/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.kirklandviews.com/2008/06/14/public-hearing-on-kirkland-parkplace-has-overflow-attendance-many-left-unable-to-speak/</link>
	<description>Kirkland's Blog for News and views on life in the City of Kirkland, Washington</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 07:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Want to be kirkland</title>
		<link>http://www.kirklandviews.com/2008/06/14/public-hearing-on-kirkland-parkplace-has-overflow-attendance-many-left-unable-to-speak/#comment-238</link>
		<dc:creator>Want to be kirkland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 23:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kirklandviews.com/?p=200#comment-238</guid>
		<description>I am not against Park Place redevelopment.  I, too am very much for it and I think the vast majority of people in the city are.  But I agree with Debra that it needs to be on a scale that is appropriate.  Touchstone has done a great job at reaching out, but then they, too must be aware most have concerns and would like something a bit smaller.  The all office solution was the proposal.  

ANd you are right Murph, we have been offered no other mediated choice of 6 or seven stories.  So it's hard to be for redevelopment, but against what is being proposed.  Unfortunately we can not impose any restrictions on what the developer has to include, which is why we should be wary of the promises.  If he can't find someone to fill the space designated movie theater at his rate, then he can do with it what he wants. Same for hotel and gym.  Likewise, has anyone asked if QFC is willing to host the hardware store we keep getting dangled in front of us.

My point...there are a lot of questions.  I sure hope someone is asking them.

As for Ken...I think he is working hard to develop a solution because he loves Kirkland.  He is very civically minded and has spoken out on many issues, including annexation.  The citizens are lucky yo have someone has organized and willing to lay out his own dollars.  

As for Jim, I don't think everyone there was part of the organized assembly...and I don't fault organization, unless it prevents the citizens who will bear the burden, the tax paying citizens (in spite of one person's comments, we do contribute via property taxes and where we choose to lay our sales taxes out), have an equal and maybe even more of a say, than the business owners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not against Park Place redevelopment.  I, too am very much for it and I think the vast majority of people in the city are.  But I agree with Debra that it needs to be on a scale that is appropriate.  Touchstone has done a great job at reaching out, but then they, too must be aware most have concerns and would like something a bit smaller.  The all office solution was the proposal.  </p>
<p>ANd you are right Murph, we have been offered no other mediated choice of 6 or seven stories.  So it&#8217;s hard to be for redevelopment, but against what is being proposed.  Unfortunately we can not impose any restrictions on what the developer has to include, which is why we should be wary of the promises.  If he can&#8217;t find someone to fill the space designated movie theater at his rate, then he can do with it what he wants. Same for hotel and gym.  Likewise, has anyone asked if QFC is willing to host the hardware store we keep getting dangled in front of us.</p>
<p>My point&#8230;there are a lot of questions.  I sure hope someone is asking them.</p>
<p>As for Ken&#8230;I think he is working hard to develop a solution because he loves Kirkland.  He is very civically minded and has spoken out on many issues, including annexation.  The citizens are lucky yo have someone has organized and willing to lay out his own dollars.  </p>
<p>As for Jim, I don&#8217;t think everyone there was part of the organized assembly&#8230;and I don&#8217;t fault organization, unless it prevents the citizens who will bear the burden, the tax paying citizens (in spite of one person&#8217;s comments, we do contribute via property taxes and where we choose to lay our sales taxes out), have an equal and maybe even more of a say, than the business owners.</p>
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		<title>By: I got out...</title>
		<link>http://www.kirklandviews.com/2008/06/14/public-hearing-on-kirkland-parkplace-has-overflow-attendance-many-left-unable-to-speak/#comment-237</link>
		<dc:creator>I got out...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 04:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kirklandviews.com/?p=200#comment-237</guid>
		<description>It makes me laugh how people think there are such big plots and plans going on at City Hall.  Those folks are working for you and trying to do the best job for the City.  That can be very hard to do when there is always a loud group of people unhappy about each and every thing that comes along.  It is important for the silent majority to speak and get involved - I am glad it sounds like that is happening.  My personal feeling?  Parkplace needs to be redone.  It is not aging well. Sounds like Ken Davidson (does anyone else think he looks like the CBS late night band leader?) is worried he will lose tenants to a new Parkplace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It makes me laugh how people think there are such big plots and plans going on at City Hall.  Those folks are working for you and trying to do the best job for the City.  That can be very hard to do when there is always a loud group of people unhappy about each and every thing that comes along.  It is important for the silent majority to speak and get involved - I am glad it sounds like that is happening.  My personal feeling?  Parkplace needs to be redone.  It is not aging well. Sounds like Ken Davidson (does anyone else think he looks like the CBS late night band leader?) is worried he will lose tenants to a new Parkplace.</p>
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		<title>By: I support parkplace</title>
		<link>http://www.kirklandviews.com/2008/06/14/public-hearing-on-kirkland-parkplace-has-overflow-attendance-many-left-unable-to-speak/#comment-235</link>
		<dc:creator>I support parkplace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kirklandviews.com/?p=200#comment-235</guid>
		<description>Some people in this town seem to be AGAINST everything. Against Park Place. Against growth. Against the evil developers. Against store owners who are accused of being "organized" if they if they dare speak out on an issue they find important. Give me a break! Everybody has a right to speak their mind and questioning somebody's motive simply because you personally have a problem with their line of work is insane. I feel sorry for the guy who on another posting that said he can't be open about his wishes for the city because he doesn't want to lose business. Don't let bullys push you around. They wouldn't thiink twice about standing up for what they believe. Peace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some people in this town seem to be AGAINST everything. Against Park Place. Against growth. Against the evil developers. Against store owners who are accused of being &#8220;organized&#8221; if they if they dare speak out on an issue they find important. Give me a break! Everybody has a right to speak their mind and questioning somebody&#8217;s motive simply because you personally have a problem with their line of work is insane. I feel sorry for the guy who on another posting that said he can&#8217;t be open about his wishes for the city because he doesn&#8217;t want to lose business. Don&#8217;t let bullys push you around. They wouldn&#8217;t thiink twice about standing up for what they believe. Peace.</p>
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		<title>By: murph</title>
		<link>http://www.kirklandviews.com/2008/06/14/public-hearing-on-kirkland-parkplace-has-overflow-attendance-many-left-unable-to-speak/#comment-234</link>
		<dc:creator>murph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kirklandviews.com/?p=200#comment-234</guid>
		<description>The problem with 11 stories is that the top of the hill location would cause those building to appear even higher.  I am 110% in favor of mixed use, and I believe it will pass, but the design is not yet the best it can be.  I do not believe a profitable project cannot be achieved with less height/mass than Touchstone proposes.  If 6 or 7 stories has been discussed, I missed the discussions because I've heard of no options other than 8 stories mixed use or 5 stories office.  'either-or',  'take it or leave it' or "give up the terracing".  

As for the hearing last week, I do not believe many people fully understand what they are "voting" for at this juncture.  The vote is for changing the zoning code from 5 stories office use to mixed use with a possibility of higher stories as I understand it.  Once the zoning is modified, then the debate of height, architectural design and public spaces will start in earnest.

Touchstone has done a great job of outreach and their proposed project has become better as a result of the input. That said, I hope the City can hold them accountable and write it into an approval that this mixed use facility will include a movie theater complex, a hotel, an athletic club and affordable retail for small service related business.  My primary concern is that they will not be able to secure a hotel and be "forced" to turn the hotel tower into more office space.  If a hotel cannot be secured, I believe the hotel tower should be required to be residential, not more office.  That would truly be mixed use.  What if Touchstone cannot secure a movie theater that pencils...off to Bellevue once again.  I am tired of driving to Bellevue, Redmond Town Center and University Village for my everyday shopping and entertainment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with 11 stories is that the top of the hill location would cause those building to appear even higher.  I am 110% in favor of mixed use, and I believe it will pass, but the design is not yet the best it can be.  I do not believe a profitable project cannot be achieved with less height/mass than Touchstone proposes.  If 6 or 7 stories has been discussed, I missed the discussions because I&#8217;ve heard of no options other than 8 stories mixed use or 5 stories office.  &#8216;either-or&#8217;,  &#8216;take it or leave it&#8217; or &#8220;give up the terracing&#8221;.  </p>
<p>As for the hearing last week, I do not believe many people fully understand what they are &#8220;voting&#8221; for at this juncture.  The vote is for changing the zoning code from 5 stories office use to mixed use with a possibility of higher stories as I understand it.  Once the zoning is modified, then the debate of height, architectural design and public spaces will start in earnest.</p>
<p>Touchstone has done a great job of outreach and their proposed project has become better as a result of the input. That said, I hope the City can hold them accountable and write it into an approval that this mixed use facility will include a movie theater complex, a hotel, an athletic club and affordable retail for small service related business.  My primary concern is that they will not be able to secure a hotel and be &#8220;forced&#8221; to turn the hotel tower into more office space.  If a hotel cannot be secured, I believe the hotel tower should be required to be residential, not more office.  That would truly be mixed use.  What if Touchstone cannot secure a movie theater that pencils&#8230;off to Bellevue once again.  I am tired of driving to Bellevue, Redmond Town Center and University Village for my everyday shopping and entertainment.</p>
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		<title>By: Debra Sinick</title>
		<link>http://www.kirklandviews.com/2008/06/14/public-hearing-on-kirkland-parkplace-has-overflow-attendance-many-left-unable-to-speak/#comment-232</link>
		<dc:creator>Debra Sinick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kirklandviews.com/?p=200#comment-232</guid>
		<description>jiminkirkland,

You raise a good point.  Some people are not pro or con, but in the middle on this and other issues.  

I, for one, am totally for a mixed use complex with active retail, open plazas, and public art.  I've said all along that whatever is decided with Parkplace with regard to building height, etc., it must be a place for those of us in Kirkland to shop, dine, and congregate.  A little bit of Redmond Town Center would be a good thing for the community.  I do not want to see a large office complex plopped down in the middle of our city with people who drive in to work and leave at the end of the day.  Parkplace needs to maintain a sense of vibrancy and community for Kirkland. It's important to maintain and enhance our community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jiminkirkland,</p>
<p>You raise a good point.  Some people are not pro or con, but in the middle on this and other issues.  </p>
<p>I, for one, am totally for a mixed use complex with active retail, open plazas, and public art.  I&#8217;ve said all along that whatever is decided with Parkplace with regard to building height, etc., it must be a place for those of us in Kirkland to shop, dine, and congregate.  A little bit of Redmond Town Center would be a good thing for the community.  I do not want to see a large office complex plopped down in the middle of our city with people who drive in to work and leave at the end of the day.  Parkplace needs to maintain a sense of vibrancy and community for Kirkland. It&#8217;s important to maintain and enhance our community.</p>
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		<title>By: jiminkirkland</title>
		<link>http://www.kirklandviews.com/2008/06/14/public-hearing-on-kirkland-parkplace-has-overflow-attendance-many-left-unable-to-speak/#comment-216</link>
		<dc:creator>jiminkirkland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 02:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kirklandviews.com/?p=200#comment-216</guid>
		<description>I want to comment separately on the 11 story proposal.  I don't believe that this is a Touchstone proposal, but one generated by the Planning Department or Board.  In any event this is not such a bad idea.

Look at the Google buildings.  What if they were stood on end instead of laying down flat (per the zoning rules)?  With the same square footage there would be beautiful open space and view corridors.  The way those buiildings were constructed, they have almost completely eliminated views from passersby on foot or vehicle.

At Park Place the same could be true.  Placing higher buildings toward the interior would allow shorter buildings on Central Way, along the Park and overlooking the public, open space in the project.  It might even preserve Ken Davidson's views!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to comment separately on the 11 story proposal.  I don&#8217;t believe that this is a Touchstone proposal, but one generated by the Planning Department or Board.  In any event this is not such a bad idea.</p>
<p>Look at the Google buildings.  What if they were stood on end instead of laying down flat (per the zoning rules)?  With the same square footage there would be beautiful open space and view corridors.  The way those buiildings were constructed, they have almost completely eliminated views from passersby on foot or vehicle.</p>
<p>At Park Place the same could be true.  Placing higher buildings toward the interior would allow shorter buildings on Central Way, along the Park and overlooking the public, open space in the project.  It might even preserve Ken Davidson&#8217;s views!!</p>
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		<title>By: jiminkirkland</title>
		<link>http://www.kirklandviews.com/2008/06/14/public-hearing-on-kirkland-parkplace-has-overflow-attendance-many-left-unable-to-speak/#comment-215</link>
		<dc:creator>jiminkirkland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 02:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kirklandviews.com/?p=200#comment-215</guid>
		<description>Very interesting.  I was there, and I spoke without being recruited.  I knew that it would be packed; didn't you?  I wasn't "organized" to get there early.  And, I have absolutely no business interest in Kirkland (except on the consumption side).  What's wrong with being organized anyway?  No one told me, or even asked me, to show up and speak--I was motivated for my own reasons.  I have no reason to suspect, as the above writers do, that there's some sort of "backers" coalition.  Both groups had purchased markers of one kind or the other, buttons for one, and stickers for the other. Don't you think the City officers are keeping count of the letters, e-mails and phone call they receive?  No doubt the antis, through their own network, are trying to stuff the "ballot box" in their own way.

I noticed that the only folks with slide shows were those who spoke against the project.   Doesn't that show some sort of serious preparation?  Maybe there just aren't as many people opposed to the mixed use project as you've imagined. 

Anyway, why would you have to choose sides, pro or con?  Isn't there room for those who might have a middle ground opinion?  I also noticed that some "antis" mentioned that this would be the ruination of other downtown businesses.  If so, how come so many business folks from downtown spoke "for?"

Ken Davidson, in his lawyerly way, insisted that local shopping centers do without "mixed use."  But, today I went to Redmond Town Center to shop for things I can't get here in Kirkland and noticed on their map that IBM and ATT Wireless are major tenants.

And, speaking of Ken Davidson--I don't see any public amenities connected to his building.  There isn't even a walkway to Park Place; you have to walk through a busy parking lot to get to the shopping center.  Where's your public art, Ken?  Where are your bike racks, Ken?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting.  I was there, and I spoke without being recruited.  I knew that it would be packed; didn&#8217;t you?  I wasn&#8217;t &#8220;organized&#8221; to get there early.  And, I have absolutely no business interest in Kirkland (except on the consumption side).  What&#8217;s wrong with being organized anyway?  No one told me, or even asked me, to show up and speak&#8211;I was motivated for my own reasons.  I have no reason to suspect, as the above writers do, that there&#8217;s some sort of &#8220;backers&#8221; coalition.  Both groups had purchased markers of one kind or the other, buttons for one, and stickers for the other. Don&#8217;t you think the City officers are keeping count of the letters, e-mails and phone call they receive?  No doubt the antis, through their own network, are trying to stuff the &#8220;ballot box&#8221; in their own way.</p>
<p>I noticed that the only folks with slide shows were those who spoke against the project.   Doesn&#8217;t that show some sort of serious preparation?  Maybe there just aren&#8217;t as many people opposed to the mixed use project as you&#8217;ve imagined. </p>
<p>Anyway, why would you have to choose sides, pro or con?  Isn&#8217;t there room for those who might have a middle ground opinion?  I also noticed that some &#8220;antis&#8221; mentioned that this would be the ruination of other downtown businesses.  If so, how come so many business folks from downtown spoke &#8220;for?&#8221;</p>
<p>Ken Davidson, in his lawyerly way, insisted that local shopping centers do without &#8220;mixed use.&#8221;  But, today I went to Redmond Town Center to shop for things I can&#8217;t get here in Kirkland and noticed on their map that IBM and ATT Wireless are major tenants.</p>
<p>And, speaking of Ken Davidson&#8211;I don&#8217;t see any public amenities connected to his building.  There isn&#8217;t even a walkway to Park Place; you have to walk through a busy parking lot to get to the shopping center.  Where&#8217;s your public art, Ken?  Where are your bike racks, Ken?</p>
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		<title>By: The Ghost of Peter Kirk</title>
		<link>http://www.kirklandviews.com/2008/06/14/public-hearing-on-kirkland-parkplace-has-overflow-attendance-many-left-unable-to-speak/#comment-214</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ghost of Peter Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 21:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kirklandviews.com/?p=200#comment-214</guid>
		<description>It is inappropriate  for any board or the City Council to put much weight on the speeches and physical bodies that manage to get themselves seen and/or heard in situations like this where many are literally left out in the cold. The written medium is ideal. It is available to an unlimited number of people via letter or email. That levels the playing field a bit so that the people that don't have the time to show up early enough to get a seat or a speaking slot have themselves heard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is inappropriate  for any board or the City Council to put much weight on the speeches and physical bodies that manage to get themselves seen and/or heard in situations like this where many are literally left out in the cold. The written medium is ideal. It is available to an unlimited number of people via letter or email. That levels the playing field a bit so that the people that don&#8217;t have the time to show up early enough to get a seat or a speaking slot have themselves heard.</p>
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		<title>By: Debra Sinick</title>
		<link>http://www.kirklandviews.com/2008/06/14/public-hearing-on-kirkland-parkplace-has-overflow-attendance-many-left-unable-to-speak/#comment-212</link>
		<dc:creator>Debra Sinick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kirklandviews.com/?p=200#comment-212</guid>
		<description>I agree with the comments above.  Often times in these meetings, one side is highly organized, having been through the  review process.  These people get their backers to speak regardless.  The general public is not as quick on their feet, so to speak.  The idea of people speaking that alternate "pro" and "con" is a good and fair one.  It gives equal opportunity to both sides.

I want to see Parkplace developed as a vibrant place for offices, businesses, and the community on a scale that works for Kirkland.  I do not want to see an office park smack in the middle of town in which people come to work during the day and leave in the evening.  We need to keep Parkplace as a place for the community to congregate, enjoy events, dining, movies, etc.  It is important to the very fabric of our city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the comments above.  Often times in these meetings, one side is highly organized, having been through the  review process.  These people get their backers to speak regardless.  The general public is not as quick on their feet, so to speak.  The idea of people speaking that alternate &#8220;pro&#8221; and &#8220;con&#8221; is a good and fair one.  It gives equal opportunity to both sides.</p>
<p>I want to see Parkplace developed as a vibrant place for offices, businesses, and the community on a scale that works for Kirkland.  I do not want to see an office park smack in the middle of town in which people come to work during the day and leave in the evening.  We need to keep Parkplace as a place for the community to congregate, enjoy events, dining, movies, etc.  It is important to the very fabric of our city.</p>
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		<title>By: Want to be kirkland</title>
		<link>http://www.kirklandviews.com/2008/06/14/public-hearing-on-kirkland-parkplace-has-overflow-attendance-many-left-unable-to-speak/#comment-211</link>
		<dc:creator>Want to be kirkland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kirklandviews.com/?p=200#comment-211</guid>
		<description>The developer and their crew got to City Hall early and signed people up, which is why so many seemed in support.  The vast majoroty of those in favor were businesses, many currently at ParkPalce.  It wasn't necessarily reflective of the community opinion. 

 Anyone who came at 7 couldn't even get in the building to sign-up to speak.  Some feel the city intenionally didn't make plans for the crowd in order to weigh in favor of the developer.  I don't know if I'd go that far, but I think there should be alternating pro and con speakers instead of lumping them together by how soon you sign in.  It would also give the planners an idea of how many who came were for or against, even if they didn't get to speak.  Seems real logical to me to have a sign in sheet of pro and one of against and go back and forth until you run out of time.  THen, even if they run out, they have a sense of which way the audience was leaning.  And the sign-up sheet should be in a place where everyone can get to it, even if they can't get in the building.  It was an atrociously run event.

I want to see ParkPlace redeveloped and done so with mixed use, but I think this is way too big!  And now they are talking 11 stories!  The developer has made a lot of promises like a  hardware store in the QFC...but has QFC agreed to this?  Since it's underground how would they carry things like pipe and lumber?  And the promise of a hotel with meeting space, does Touchstone have a hotel who has expressed interest?  I think these are empty promises to get out hopes up.  They want to change the city, then walk away and leave us with the mess to deal with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The developer and their crew got to City Hall early and signed people up, which is why so many seemed in support.  The vast majoroty of those in favor were businesses, many currently at ParkPalce.  It wasn&#8217;t necessarily reflective of the community opinion. </p>
<p> Anyone who came at 7 couldn&#8217;t even get in the building to sign-up to speak.  Some feel the city intenionally didn&#8217;t make plans for the crowd in order to weigh in favor of the developer.  I don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;d go that far, but I think there should be alternating pro and con speakers instead of lumping them together by how soon you sign in.  It would also give the planners an idea of how many who came were for or against, even if they didn&#8217;t get to speak.  Seems real logical to me to have a sign in sheet of pro and one of against and go back and forth until you run out of time.  THen, even if they run out, they have a sense of which way the audience was leaning.  And the sign-up sheet should be in a place where everyone can get to it, even if they can&#8217;t get in the building.  It was an atrociously run event.</p>
<p>I want to see ParkPlace redeveloped and done so with mixed use, but I think this is way too big!  And now they are talking 11 stories!  The developer has made a lot of promises like a  hardware store in the QFC&#8230;but has QFC agreed to this?  Since it&#8217;s underground how would they carry things like pipe and lumber?  And the promise of a hotel with meeting space, does Touchstone have a hotel who has expressed interest?  I think these are empty promises to get out hopes up.  They want to change the city, then walk away and leave us with the mess to deal with.</p>
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